How Lydia Knight Rewired Her Brain for Lasting Change: Deprogramming Fear

Lydia Knight: 00:00:00

This hiding and this double life that I was living just became unacceptable to me. So what happened was there was this national Habits of Health call.

It was at the end of the year, people thought they were tuning in for, like, healthy tips during the holidays. And I just decided I couldn't do it anymore. Like, I had to be authentic.

And at this point, Matt, I had not found the solution I'd been searching for years. And I was like, I just, I've got to be real. So on the call, I told thousands of people that you think I'm a healthy person, but here's the truth.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:00:35

Today's guest is Lydia Knight. She is a cult survivor. She's an author. She says she's a neuroscience enthusiast slash nerd, and she's an executive coach.

And she's really spent her life trying to rewrite the narrative of fear and shame and control into a life that is led with empowerment and authenticity and freedom.

Lydia takes us on this journey through her extraordinary life, truly, from growing up in a cult led by her grandmother, to overcoming a life threatening eating disorder, to using neuroscience principles to deprogram harmful thought patterns and really reclaim her life. And through that, she's helping other people do the same. She doesn't hold back.

And she shares these moments that shaped her as we do on the Life Shift podcast, including one really specific moment that stood out to me. And it was this raw and vulnerable decision to speak her truth publicly, which not only changed her life, but inspired other people.

Because we really just never know what other people are feeling out there and feel a little less alone. It can be so life changing.

In this episode, Lydia explains the power of deprogramming, the healing power of authenticity, and how understanding the brain can really lead to lasting change. Her story is this powerful reminder that no matter how entrenched our struggles may feel, we really can make transformation.

So whether you're seeking hope, resilience, or just a kind reminder of the strength that we all have, I think you'll really enjoy this episode. So without further ado, here is my conversation with Lydia Knight.

I'm Matt Gilhooley, and this is the Life Shift Candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever.

Lydia Knight: 00:02:21

Foreign.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:02:31

S welcome to the Life Shift podcast. I am here with Lydia. Hello, Lydia.

Lydia Knight: 00:02:36

Hello, Matt. It's so wonderful to be here.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:02:39

Well, thank you for being a part of the Life Shift podcast even before you tell your story, because I can tell that although your story is probably an intense one to hear, there is so much value in telling our stories and Just by talking to you for these last couple minutes that people haven't heard.

I just know that you have this great energy that I think people out there that might feel alone in their circumstance, it might not be the same as yours, but they're going to feel a little less alone or they're going to have something that they can attach to, to move forward in their life. So just thank you before we even get started.

Lydia Knight: 00:03:12

Well, I receive that it's wonderful to be here and thank you for the stories that you share with the world. Like it's one of the most important things for us to connect through story as human beings. Thank you for being such a, such a big part of that, Matt.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:03:24

Well, I will accept that as well. I think of my 8 year old self who had just lost his mom.

It was like the late 80s, early 90s and no one was prepared to teach me how to grieve or to help me through the life with. Basically she was like my main parent because my dad lived so far away and I was visiting him when she died and nobody knew what to do.

And what I absorbed from everyone around me was that they just needed to see that I was happy.

And so I absorbed that and took on that responsibility of performing and being perfect and doing all the things so that my dad wouldn't also abandon me like it felt when a parent dies.

And so every time I have these conversations I think, what if that 8 year old, that 10 year old, that 15 year old had heard another story about someone, a guy in their 40s who had lost their mom as a kid and was doing fine and having these conversations? Would I feel different? Would I have grown up differently hearing these stories?

And so it's just a pleasure to be able to have this space, to hold the space for these stories. Because as many stories as I've heard, there's always something in someone's story that hits me and helps to heal that little kid in me.

important. And I Hope that in: 2025

Not just the triumphs, but also like those valleys. Because I think I connect so much more to those valley like moments and how we got to the triumphs from those valleys.

Lydia Knight: 00:05:10

Yeah, what, what we talk about is the worst part of your story becomes the best part of the story when you're on side of that, when you're healthy, when you're healed and you can look back and have that contrast. And it really is, you know, a beautiful thing that. That creates the wholeness of who we are.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:05:29

You're right. But it's so true because I look back and I'm like, I'm only this version of me because of my worst moments.

Lydia Knight: 00:05:36

Yeah, it's absolutely. And it's a powerful thing to see.

And when we think about, you know, storytelling, it's like, wow, the most exciting part was when it was so bad, because now you're okay. Like, you live to tell the tale. Like, we've. We've come through, so it's a beautiful triumph. Those valleys and, yeah, sharing those is so important.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:05:55

y with the Life Shift podcast: 2022

Somewhere along the way, someone said to your worst moment is just as bad as my worst moment because it's the worst moment we've ever experienced, so we don't know anything worse. And I was like, wow, like, that makes so much sense.

Lydia Knight: 00:06:35

I remember I was, like, complaining to a friend once about, like, a workout injury, right? Like, I, like, pulled a muscle or something.

And as I'm just, you know, venting to a friend, I had this moment where I realized, like, my friend has chronic pain. She's lived with chronic pain every day for years. And I sort of have this deer in the headlights moment where I would, like, I'm so sorry.

Like, you're in pain all the time. And she said something so beautiful. She's like, your experience and my experience don't diminish each other.

She's like, your pain is just as valid as my pain. We're just having different pain.

And I thought that was such a wonderful perspective of we can be our authentic selves and not need to compare or decide how much we can share depending on how much someone else's experience is in intensity.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:07:22

Wow, that's. I mean, that's really powerful. I hope. I don't know.

I don't think all of my circle is like that, but I hope more people get to be that way in which there is less of that. There's more sharing, more validating, more embracing each other's stories as uniquely their own.

But also, we're all kind of intertwined in some way on this little ride we call Life.

Lydia Knight: 00:07:48

Yeah, absolutely.

And, like, the story I'm sharing today, Matt, this is a story that I thought was, like, too bizarre and a part of my story that I didn't share up until, like, a month ago or maybe two. Like, it had. Yeah. And sometimes we've even healed through our story, and we feel secure in it, but it feels like, a little too much to share.

But I have found that as soon as you start sharing, like, you know, our videos started going viral when I started sharing the story that, like, I thought that nobody would want to hear about. And I've had such a beautiful response. So I'm. I'm happy and privileged to share this story.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:08:25

Everyone should share their story when they're comfortable, when they're ready to. I think it's. Yeah, it's really healing for the person sharing as well, but also for those of us that get to listen.

u can tell us who Lydia is in: 2025

Lydia Knight: 00:08:43

Yes. So I'm an author. We have two books coming out this year.

A memoir about the bizarre circumstance I grew up in, and then this beautiful book called Thought Leader that's about the principles that we teach. And so that's really fun. I'm a speaker. We do leadership training for the U.S. army, and leaders at Adobe and Disney and National Geographic.

I love the land that I'm on. I am a lover of this beautiful land of Santa Fe. We have a little hobby farm on six acres. And I'm an optimist, which is a lovely thing.

s together is who Lydia is in: 2025

Matt Gilhooly: 00:09:42

Yeah. And we would be remiss if we didn't say thank you to Matt Drinkon for the Eternal Optimus Podcast and for connecting us.

We've both been a part of his world, and he made this connection because he knew that we would jive in this story together. Yeah, absolutely. Hey, Matt.

Lydia Knight: 00:09:58

Shout out to Matt. Adoring all the.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:10:01

Matt's right. Well, you know, it's a very uncommon name, so it's. It's hard to. To find another Matt out there. So when you find them, you gotta stick with them.

But in any case, I. I love that it. I love the way you describe your work, too, because you can see the joy and the passion that you have behind it.

It just, I mean, you lit up talking about your work.

When I think myself growing up, I stuck with these like society checklist type things in which work was just something that was like this status that was like you had to reach a certain level and then you had success, respect, or you had all these pieces and you're telling what you do and what you drive towards and the things that you love and there's just so much joy there. Whereas, like, I felt like I wasn't allowed to have that working until recently when I was like, oh well, no one cares. I can do whatever I want.

Lydia Knight: 00:10:56

It's a great realization. That is a paradigm shift I wish upon everyone.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:11:01

Right. Well, it took a while, but here we are.

So to get into your story, maybe the best way to do it is to kind of have you paint your picture of your life leading up to this pivotal moment that we're going to talk around today. And you can paint how far back you need to go. You go there and paint this picture for us.

Lydia Knight: 00:11:17

Yes, absolutely.

So I mean, just diving right in with the disclaimer that like, I am happy and healthy and thriving and like the story has a very, you know, happy continuance. But just being real about where my, where my story started. I grew up terrified every single day. I'm a cult survivor.

So my grandmother created a cult within the Mormon church and the story around that was that my brother and I were being constantly chased by Satan worshipers who had kidnapped us earlier in life. This, this band of Satan worshipers controlled the government and the police and everything.

A very conspiracy theory esque and that they had, they were led by my father and we had been abused in horrible ways. So for instance, one day when I was like maybe 7, 8 years old, my back hurt and I went to my mom, you know, because you trust your parents.

And I'm like, mom, my back hurts. Like, you know, what do do?

And she's like, well, your back hurts because you were abused by this satanic cult and they put needles into your eyes and they broke your spine over and over and over, then healed you with the power of Satan and that's why your back hurts. These were the kinds of explanations that I was receiving growing up.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:12:35

So from the people you trusted?

Lydia Knight: 00:12:38

Yes, from the people that I trusted. And so there was this absolute fear that I just lived every day with. You know, my nervous system was formed in, in fear every day.

Now I was in this cult circumstance for a long time until Adulthood. When I finally left the cult and got back in touch with my dad, who was a loving parent who had been looking for his kids for 25 years.

And we had been separated and, you know, we were kidnapped away when I was 2 years old. My brother was 1 years old when we were reunited and I left the cult. I on this journey, understanding my brain and neuroscience.

And I was able to deprogram from the cult environment that I'd grown up in. I was able to go to college and graduate summa cum laude and, you know, be successful in so many ways and get married and have a child of my own.

And I was so happy that I had escaped this cult upbringing. And I thought that, like, my troubles were behind me. I launched into this wonderful career. I became a health coach. It took off very quickly.

I became in the top 1% of coaches in the world and we had a team of over 8,000 clients. I became a business coach for health coaches, trained over 400 coaches and Matt. I developed the most horrible life threatening eating disorder.

At the same time that my whole image and my whole work in the world was, this is how you're healthy, this is how to be healthy. I'm a symbol of health. So I started living this double life.

I would say that that life shift was really at a time where I had locked myself in my closet in the bedroom.

That was where I would go to cry because you couldn't hear very well if I was in that closet and I was on the floor and I was just weeping and weeping, really down on myself and terrified because I had done so much to get out of the cult. I had done so much to heal my brain.

And now my whole life had become about being terrified about food and binge eating and restricting and it was all consuming. I was like, I did so much to survive. And now this, like, this is a thing that's going to take me out.

And that was one of the darkest moments because although I felt relief in the moment, the relief came from the idea that, oh, I don't have to keep doing this. Like, I could end my life and I wouldn't have to suffer with this anymore.

It was really the first time that had occurred to me as a possibility and a way out. And that that was what built up to that life shift moment.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:15:33

I mean, like you said, your story is like so complex and so like nuanced in the fact that how you grew up and was implanted in you, all these negative things, you get out, we think, yay, she's out. Look how successful she is. Like on surface, on paper, when inside you, you still have this, like, this control piece where.

In which you need to navigate this world inside that you can control this because everything else is so beautiful on the outside. I'm finding it hard to describe that because I had the same thing in an eating disorder piece that I couldn't escape as well as a teen.

And I think a lot of it is trauma, like, informed of something that I can control completely within myself. Whether that's a negative thing or not. Do you look back at that as like something you were holding tight to because you could control?

Or why do you think you. You felt that way with the. The eating disorder piece that brought you there?

Lydia Knight: 00:16:34

It's such a great question. And if you look for answers of why eating disorders exist, you will find a thousand different reasons.

It's control, it's past trauma, it's a hormone imbalance. It's not about. It's about something else.

What was the thing that saved my life was a realization that the number one cause of eating disorders is restrictive dieting. And I was a health coach that was restricting my diet more and more to try to make my body look in a certain way.

And we've now freed over a thousand women from women and men. Mostly women come to us, but we have lots of great men in our community as well, but freed them from eating disorders. And.

And it's such a relief to know that they don't have to go to 25 years of therapy and overcome all their trauma. Like, that's a beautiful thing to do. Like, high five, do it. But to end an eating disorder, it's actually about deprogramming from diet culture.

It's about working with neuroscience. So I didn't know that in that moment, but that was something that I found. Yes. Did I have control issues? Yes.

Was I still working through the cult stuff? Absolutely. But none of those things were actually the reason I was out of control with food and felt like I couldn't stop once I started eating.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:17:52

Why, and this is going to sound so rude, why in that moment, do you think that it was either all or nothing for you? Like, because you said, like, you feel like you could just pull yourself out of this experience completely to end it all.

What in that moment brought you, like, why that moment?

Lydia Knight: 00:18:12

Yeah, that's a beautiful, valid question. Like, absolutely. So I had already been trying all the traditional methods to end an eating disorder. I had already been doing that for years.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:18:24

You were fully aware that you had this issue?

Lydia Knight: 00:18:29

Yes, I Was aware I didn't have the language of eating disorder for a long time.

I honestly thought, Matt, that I was some unique kind of crazy, because what kind of health coach would go and binge on all this food that I would never recommend for anyone else, have this sort of outer body experience where I was watching myself eat spoon after spoonful of peanut butter and not being able to stop and then spend the next month just like killing myself at the gym and like, you, starving myself to try to even get back to square zero. So it was a long lead up to the realization that I could get out of it. So what happened was, for years, I had tried everything.

I had tried all the traditional methods, and everything made it worse. And it was terrifying to me because I was somebody that could set a goal. I'd overcome so much in my life.

I'm for sure I could set a goal and change it. But nothing worked. What was so important about the darkness of that moment on the closet floor was because I gave up.

Because I was like, I don't have to live anymore. Because I went to that place of darkness.

My brain opened up to solutions I hadn't thought of before because I was looking to all these traditional methods to be free. But what happened was a thought occurred to me. What if this isn't some disorder or disease that I'm going to have for the rest of my life?

What if this is a habit that I can break? What if that habit is in my thoughts, in my brain, and I can change that? I can deprogram from it, just like I did with the cult.

I didn't think that I would go back to those principles that got me out of a cult. I thought that was like a one and done. Glad I figured that out. And I realized I could apply it to my eating disorder.

Now, within a week or so after that, I was completely free of my eating disorder. I've never had the urge to go back to it since. And that's a very common experience with over thousands, thousand people we've worked with.

But it wasn't like a, you know, bootstrap my way out of it. Well, I can just stop. It was. I've been trying for years and nothing works.

It was the moment of maybe I need to try something that is really out of the box. And it happened to work, thankfully.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:20:44

Yeah. No, I mean, that's amazing. I think that a lot of people, I think we get so wrapped up in that moment, and I say we.

I think I would probably say that I still experience disordered Eating patterns and I excuse them away. You know, I'll go to the gym, I'll do this. I'm in control. I'm not in control when I'm in my grief periods.

I just lost my dog over the summer and it's been the craziest grief journey I've ever been on. It's, it's brought some of those things back up.

What's funny about it, and I think a lot of people might relate to this, is like, like I know what to do, I just don't do it.

And then I, like you said, it feels like this outer body experience when I'm like stuffing my face with an extra or a couple extra Oreos or whatever they may be.

And so I love that for you, this dark moment basically clear the slate for you in a way to start thinking about things differently and approaching things in a different way. I, I venture to say that your education and your. What'd you say? Brain nerd. A nerd for neuroscience. Neuroscience something.

I think some of that probably played a lot into your ability to, to make that switch. Would you agree, or do you feel that that training taught you?

Lydia Knight: 00:22:06

Yes. So the, the neuroscience principles is really what we found. Break this pattern in a way where it's not a lifetime of struggling.

And I, I just want to say thank you for being that like these are the conversations that it's so important to be open about because a lot of times we hide these stories and it's so important to, to share and be open, especially when we've been on that journey and we're, you know, have, have the strength and the choice to share. So thank you for being open. And this is what we found thousands of times over.

I don't want it to come across as minimizing anyone's individual experience. We all have our own experience.

And the beautiful part of freedom is when we realize that it's not some like, fault of our own or something broken or like you said, I know what to do, but I'm not doing it.

And we can get down on ourselves sometimes about willpower or beating ourselves up, but what it comes down to is, neuroscience wise, we are in this habit that is in a lower part of our brain.

And when we bring the awareness of that habit and those thought patterns that programming to the higher part of our brain, it's called the prefrontal cortex. It's the part of our brain that can look at, wait, actually, I do know what to do and I can do it versus I know what to do. Why Am I not doing it?

So it's really about moving our awareness from one part of our brain to the other. And it's like the spell is broken and we can follow through with the things that like, oh, that's a thing that is going to lead me to my goals.

So it's beautiful to see how principles apply to so many different areas. But you know, especially, you know, with food, that was, that was a big one in my story of, oh, this is the thing I need to fix.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:23:53

Could you compare the thoughts about eating disorders and those things and the feelings that come with those to moments of grief, moments of depression? Like, are there similar things that you see in those patterns that are created in those particular moments as they are in eating disordered moments?

Lydia Knight: 00:24:13

Super great question. So what happens specifically in that moment where we're like, oh, why did I do that? Again, I know better, why did I do that?

The thought that led up to that, the thought that drove that action that we regret can be lots of different things. We absolutely see themes. But for some people it's like, well, I know I'm not gonna be able to resist, so I might as well just follow through.

For some people it's like, well, I'm totally gonna make up for it tomorrow, so go, I'll just go and eat this. For some people it's a depressed thought or an anxiety thought.

The beautiful part of the freedom is that it doesn't really matter what that thought is. Of course it's going to be related with, you know, who we are in our lives and our history. But it's not about the quality of what the thought is.

It's about the power of knowing whatever the thought is that's driving this behavior.

You can look at that thought with a different part of your brain where now you're free to make a choice versus going through with this compulsion, like, and feeling powerless. So it's the feeling around what changes.

But absolutely there are certain themes, but those thoughts are going to be different for everyone because we all have some different meaning attached to what the food is.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:25:29

And I was even thinking outside of the food just in a sense of like some people act on certain anxiety induced moments or depression or through a grief journey and they do things that maybe are traditionally not or something they know they shouldn't be doing.

Because so I was kind of wondering if the same like thought patterns and the habits and the deep seated things, if we bring them a little bit more forward in those moments. If you've seen any correlation to that outside of the food.

Lydia Knight: 00:25:59

Oh, yes. Oh, I'm so glad that you clarified there because this is a really fun thing to explore. Explore, because. Absolutely.

That's why we went from helping people with eating disorders, which we still do with disordered eating. Eating disorders. And then that's. We do leadership coaching and executive coaching.

Because the people that come to us, they're like, hold on, there's this, this thing I'm doing with food that I've wanted to quit for years and years, and I can use these brain principles to do what I want instead of what I'll regret. Like, what else does this apply to?

So yes, like, like with anxiety, we've seen this work with anxiety and depression and OCD and, you know, any sort of bad habits, even negative self talk.

We have programming, we have patterns of thought in our brain that when you know how to change them, you can, like we just decide what serves us and what doesn't. And so all of these different things, it's related to the same principles work because it's the same process in our brain.

So I love that you connected that because absolutely. Sometimes those things were more powerful in our lives to change than even the food thing.

It's like, wow, having my anxiety, like not be a problem anymore. Like that's life changing. So yes, and yes.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:27:15

Or even your cult upbringing and the things that you were deprogramming yourself, I would imagine that it's very similar, some of the approaches would be similar to pull some of those away from your habits and the things that you were thinking or the ways that you were thinking.

Because I mean, starting at 2, you said when you were kind of taken away from the quote unquote normal family experience and brought into this, this other experience, I would imagine that there's a lot of deep seated things that come there. So was that experience, deprogramming that very helpful in this second part of your journey?

Lydia Knight: 00:27:50

For sure. So it was the same principles. So I, I first learned these principles and deprogramming from the cult that I grew up in.

And that had a lot to do with deprogramming these patterns of fear, deprogramming these patterns of.

Well, I intellectually know that this is fine and safe to do, but my body and my nervous system is telling me to be afraid and bringing those things into harmony. So yes, the deprogramming principles started with the cult story for, you know, my own journey.

Then they came up again with ending an eating disorder. And then it went on to be the same principles with, you know, building a business in the top 2% of woman owned businesses in the world.

It all goes back to when we have a relationship, relationship with our brain, where we are best friends with our brain and we can evolve together and we can change things that don't serve us. It applies to everything because we see the whole world through the patterns of our brain.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:28:46

So when you look back at the, the version of Lydia before the closet moment, but after the deprogramming moment, do you see her differently? Is she a different person?

Or were you always kind of this person and you've just evolved or were you a different person in these different stages of your life?

Lydia Knight: 00:29:07

You know, I think that's such an interesting journey of life to think of. What is the core of who I am that's authentic, that's been there the whole time versus, you know, these different chapters.

Because it's difficult for me to relate back to the person that I used to be because I've changed in so many ways. So, Matt, within a space of a couple of years, I left the Mormon Church. I left the cult I grew up in. I found my dad after 25 years.

I divorced my abusive husband and I started my business.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:29:40

Yeah, that's a different person.

Lydia Knight: 00:29:43

Yeah, that's a crazy couple of years. And so looking back, it's like I would have not hung out with my past, you know, self, with what she thought and, you know, how she viewed the world.

But there is this, this through line, there's like this golden thread of there is an authentic Lydia, there is an authentic us that's been there the whole time. And I think one of the most beautiful relationships that we cultivate is with, with that, with like the core of who we are.

Knowing that person and really like connecting with that person is, is a beautiful thing, but definitely feels like I'm a different person.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:30:21

Yeah. And I would imagine before that it feels like a different person too.

Like you look back at the, the younger version of yourself when maybe you had more of that core and it got taken away a little bit at a time with the fear and the things and, you know, like whatever you were supposed to be when you were born. Right.

I feel like sometimes we feel this way and then things were pushed away from you and you were either bringing them all inside and maybe it's coming out now. So like the younger version of Lydia is now able to live and do those things or maybe not.

I mean, I think, I think of the different versions of me like to kind of not nearly as, you know, all those things in a row, but Before I had my breakthrough moment in therapy after my mom died, it was like 20 years of grief. So mom died when I was 8. I would say, like early 30s was when I was like, finally ready, I guess, to find a therapist and figure my way out of it.

And I look at that 20 something year old version of me and I'm like, what was he doing? And at the same time, I also look at him with like this compassion, knowing how lost I was and how I was really just reaching for so many things.

But I definitely wouldn't hang out with him. Like, you made a point of, like, you wouldn't hang out with effort because you're like, wow, I know so much more now. And it's just so you're.

You're right. Looking back on those people, you're like, there is a through line. But for me, I'm like, ooh, that's a tough through line. But it seems like.

And I add, the question came from. Because you're so light and joyful and you just exude this aura of like, happiness in a way not. Happiness is not the right word.

I think joy is a better word. And so I was just curious if the older versions of you had that, but in different ways.

Lydia Knight: 00:32:11

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I received that. That's a beautiful compliment. And.

And isn't it a good sign where we can look back at our past self and it feels a little cringe? I mean, that's the sign that we've grown, right? Or we're like, oh, man.

Hopefully we keep on feeling that way throughout our lives because we've continued to grow.

And I think when we can look back and be like, oh, man, I can't believe that's who I used to be, but also have compassion for who that person was and a gratitude because that person took all the brave, bold, courageous steps so that we could become who we are now. I think that's a wonderful combination.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:32:50

Yeah. Speaking of steps, like what.

I don't need exact steps, but like, what did the, like a month from that closet moment and the month after, what did your life like, how did you start to make changes in your life and how did you start to feel different?

Lydia Knight: 00:33:07

Well, I was so, so hopeful and encouraged. I went from maybe I don't want to do this life thing anymore because I felt powerless.

I would wake up in the morning and I didn't know if I was going to binge. I would wake up in the morning and I had behaviors that I really fundamentally didn't agree with that I Didn't know if I was going to do.

Like that was really scary.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:33:29

It was like out of control kind of feeling.

Lydia Knight: 00:33:32

Yeah, it's so, so scary.

I think for any of us to feel out of control and so to wake up in the morning and know that even if I have an urge to binge, I can wake up my brain out of that, that craving is going to melt away. And so it turn. Like I would say the month after was just all of this building trust. Cause you're just stacking up triumphs of wow. Like I.

I have full power over, over my life like that.

I know that the word empowered, empower is the name of the program and it is that feeling of I am empowered in my own life because I have the choice to do otherwise. I can, you know, know that I can make a choice I'm gonna feel so good about later. So I think there was a lot of hope.

There was a lot of stacking up of triumphs and successes. There was a new standard in my life.

I think I was making a lot of those changes because once you realize that you're someone who's empowered and free, it. It grows this self love, it develops this self love which turns into a higher standard, which clarifies other relationships in your life.

Because we only get upset when people treat us worse than we treat ourselves.

So when we love ourselves more, we start being like, oh, actually these are the people in my life that make sense and these are the people in my life that don't.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:34:52

Which is really hard. I think that's a hard thing too, for a lot of people for sure.

Lydia Knight: 00:34:58

And a beautiful part of the process.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:35:00

I'm imagining in the way you speak about this that maybe you didn't have this, but did you have moments of fear? Like, when is my house of cards going to fall? Like, I'm stacking these triumphs, like, I'm doing good, I'm doing good.

I've done this before in my eating disorder journey. Felt really good for this long and then something crashed. Did that fear kind of melt away or did you not even have a fear of it kind of dissipating?

Because I think I feel for me, like, I can go, I can go. Two years. Two years, I'm good. And then, then something happens and you know, and then I'm like, oh, guess I'm starting over again.

So did you have any of that?

Lydia Knight: 00:35:36

Yeah, I think I'm probably going through some of that right now. Oh yeah. All. All the human is here. So in those early days, although it was this wonderful, triumphant thing.

It wasn't like I had the experience of the clients in our community that have a coach that can normalize things for you and let you know you're right on track in the journey. Like, I was the pioneer paving the way.

So although I was having this triumph and things were getting so much better because I had so much change in such a short amount of time in my life, I remember this untethered feeling. Like, it's like the way I described it was.

It's like being in free fall, and you're falling, and you don't know if you should brace yourself for impact and be terrified or if you should just enjoy the ride. And your parachute's gonna happen in a moment. You're just in the free fall part, and you're not sure where this is gonna go. So there were.

There were waves of that. And I think that it's really important to normalize that in the growth journey. That feeling of starting over or that fear or that, am I doing enough?

Or what is this all for?

Those existential moments are part of our growth because every time that we go to this next chapter, we have this new vision for our lives that's possible, but that also means we're stepping into this unknown. So to recognize that as part of the growth journey is. Is so important versus, like, oh, no, not this again. Not the free fall, not the. Not the fear.

It doesn't make it easy, but it's good to normalize it as like, hello, old friend. I guess I'm on the right track.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:37:17

Well, and for you too.

I mean, I could see how that could get more complex with the fear that you grew up with and that internalized nervous system shakeup, if you will, of. Of your upbringing. I can imagine that that free fall feels very different and very. Could be scary at times.

Lydia Knight: 00:37:34

Yeah. And it's. It's layers of deprogramming.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:37:37

Right.

Lydia Knight: 00:37:37

It's like you realize, like. Like, Matt, just the other day, I realized that I have a really hard time using paper in notebooks.

Like, I have all these empty notebooks, and I'm like, what? I have notebook scarcity? Because. And, you know, from my background, it's like, well, the. The apocalypse is coming.

The world is ending, and you're gonna feel so dumb if you used all of your paper and you don't have any paper once the world ends. And I'm like, oh, okay, I don't know that anymore. So these. These layers.

And we can be playful with it of, oh, there's Another scarcity that's coming up or here's another layer.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:38:12

Yeah, it's compassion. I mean, it is. It's being compassionate about all versions of ourselves, I think.

Lydia Knight: 00:38:18

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:38:18

Were others aware or was this more of an internal.

You kept this to yourself because you were so successful in your public life, or did you have people that you were telling that you were facing these issues?

Lydia Knight: 00:38:31

I kept it a secret like my life depended on it, because I really felt like it did. Like it would be. I was the breadwinner for my family. This was my whole identity was being a health coach.

I had 8,000 people that were depending on me. I had thousands more that would tune in to get health tips from health coach Lydia.

So for a long time, I hid it, and I was just desperate to find a solution, and then I would just fix it and nobody would ever know about it, and then I would move on. But what happened was that this was a beautiful life shift moment as well.

I read the book by Brene Brown, the Gifts of Imperfection, and I read that, too. Yeah, it's so, so good. And the paradigm shift that I had was that authenticity was so much more important than really anything else. Like that.

This hiding and this. This double life that I was living just became unacceptable to me.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:39:27

So.

Lydia Knight: 00:39:27

So what happened was there was this national Habits of Health call. It was at the end of the year. People thought they were tuning in for, like, healthy tips during the holidays.

And I just decided I couldn't do it anymore. Like, I had to be authentic. And at this point, Matt, I had not found the solution I'd been searching for years. And I was like, I just.

I've got to be real. So on the call, I told thousands of people that you think I'm a healthy person, but here's the truth. I told them I was out of control with food.

I told them how I felt. And I essentially committed career suicide. And it was terrifying. And I cried myself to sleep. But I knew I had to be real.

And what happened was, the next morning, I woke up to hundreds of messages. And I. I thought at first, like, these are people that wanted to, like, yell at me, because it's like, how. How dare you mislead me? Me?

But the reality was, it was hundreds of messages of people saying, me, too. I thought I was the only one that was doing this. I've been keeping it a secret.

So that was a big motivation to be able to find, like, a real solution, because it wasn't just me anymore. Like, I wasn't alone. And that Ended up being a huge career pivot into what we do now with helping people to deprogram.

So, yeah, I kept it a secret until I really didn't keep it a secret.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:40:48

You know, sometimes I think that's such a beautiful moment, and I'm glad that we got to talk about that, because there is so much power in letting it out, you know, in letting what we feel is our biggest shame out. I don't know if you felt this way, but maybe you cried yourself to sleep, but the next morning, maybe you felt a little bit more validated.

But things in my head seem so much scarier if I don't let them out, if I don't write them down, if I don't speak them out loud, they're so much scarier. But then I hear myself say it. I'm like, oh, that's not that bad. Like, I can handle that. We're moving forward. So do you.

Do you feel any of those moments?

Lydia Knight: 00:41:31

Yeah, absolutely. Just a recent example of that is the cult deprogramming, that all of these principles that we teach now to 9,000 clients, they all came from this.

This cult story. And until a couple of months ago, I didn't tell anyone that story because I'm like, this is not relatable. This is so weird.

So I actually created a little, like, separate TikTok account, and I'm like, this is my personal account because I just wanted, Like, I just felt this need to share these stories, and so I'm like, I'll just have, like, a secret account. And I shared a couple stories.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:42:07

Dip my toe in.

Lydia Knight: 00:42:08

Yeah. And then they went viral. We were having. We've had, like, viral videos every single week, and it's been a beautiful experience.

And you're totally right. Like, in my head, I was like, oh, well, people will hear this story. They'll think it's way too weird. They'll think I'm a crazy person.

They won't believe anything that I say because they know that I came from this weird upbringing. My brain had all this story around it that was totally different from the reality.

There has been so much love and so much celebration and so much connectedness from it. So it's important to take those bold steps, because we get to find out what the reality is versus.

Versus just believing the story in our mind, because then we don't stack up that evidence of, oh, actually, when I'm authentic, things turn out really well.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:42:53

Yeah. I mean, you sharing that with so many people, I.

When you were telling that story, I'm Picturing these thousands of people listening and going, oh, I do the same thing. Like, or I feel the same way. I didn't even think, which is maybe naive of me, that it was career suicide. It was like, you're telling the truth here.

Because any. Like, we all. We're all human. Like, we all have missteps.

We all do things that, like, don't align with what we're projecting out into the world just because that's just. It's just part of the human condition, I think.

And so you telling that story, like, gave permission for people to drop the shame about how they felt, because they probably felt, I'm the only one that does this. I'm not going to tell everyone that I, you know, sneak a donut every morning just because, like, that's what I do.

Like, I think you just validated so many experiences by being your true self with all of them. And I think in the long run, it ends up being a really great, valuable thing for so much more than you by doing that.

Lydia Knight: 00:43:57

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's the case anytime that we share authentically. But it's not the story that our brain tells us. Right.

Our brain is by default going to tell us that fear story of, like, it usually ends up. No one will love you. You're alone in a ditch, and your health is horrible, and you're totally unleveled.

Our brains go to this extreme of how bad things are going to be. I mean, we can dive into the nerdy neuroscience around that, but there's a reason why.

But we can reprogram our brains so that we don't go to the catastrophic stories every time.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:44:36

I love that you did that. Are you glad you did that? Did that. You shared.

Lydia Knight: 00:44:40

I. Yes, it was it. So when I shared on that call about my real experience with food before I knew it was an eating disorder, I truly thought I was alone.

I didn't think anyone else in the world did the things that I did. I really thought I was alone. And when I shared, it was probably the scariest thing I'd ever done at that point in my life.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:45:02

And you had done a lot before that.

Lydia Knight: 00:45:05

And I had had some scary moments before that, but this felt like the most vulnerable, scary thing. And it's been such an important anchor to look back on.

Like, when I started sharing the stories of growing up in a cult, that was the anchor I looked back on of, like, Lydia, remember when you did that really scary thing? And then it ended up being, like, the best thing in your life to that Point. Because you were just real. Like, keep going.

Because we need to keep reminding ourselves. Because every time we're vulnerable and we share, it almost feels like this, this new fear, like this new scary level.

So to anchor back is so, so important.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:45:43

No, I can't stop thinking about that now that you shared it. Like, I'm like, cult. What? No, this, this. This proof to the beginning of our.

Our conversation where we were talking about the value of story and how much other people, whether that's the same exact experience or not, something about your story is going to resonate with someone that hears it, you know, and then it can impact their lives in ways that you'll never even know. And it's like that moment right there.

Not only did you change the trajectory of your own life in a positive way, I'm sure so many of those people listening change things about themselves because for the first time, they realized maybe inside that they weren't the only ones. Ones doing that or feeling that way, and they could release some of that shame. And then maybe they shared their story with.

So, you know, like, there's so much power in just showing up and being real, whether that fear tells us to or not, 100%.

Lydia Knight: 00:46:51

And we intellectually might know that. And it still feels vulnerable and hard in the moment.

But I had a friend share something, something so beautiful with me as I was sharing about, you know, how things have been popping off and going viral. And it's like, really interesting to see.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:47:06

That's gonna be scary too.

Lydia Knight: 00:47:07

How many people. Yeah, that's. That's a whole other thing too. But what she said, because I, I had shared, like, I. I didn't share it for so long.

Cause I thought that it was not very relatable. Like, not everyone's growing up in a cult.

She said that there is such a power of sharing our authentic story because the other person is hearing something that only we can tell them. Because we are the only ones that can share our truly authentic story with them.

And what it does is it resonates with them in a way where they embody what is my authentic story. What is the thing that only I can share? Because it's my unique authenticity. And that's the thing that attracts people.

And I just thought that was so good. Like, I just.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:47:55

I love, love that it's so true. And it's the reason that I've kept going with the Life Shift podcast.

I think it's just because I hear these stories and things others say validate those things, that maybe I haven't Told anyone yet. They're like, oh, you know, like, I was talking to this woman about she had lost her. Her father when she was a kid and her mom was.

She was estranged from her mom.

And she was telling me the story about how in her teenage years, years, she would always think, oh, well, my dad's in witness protection and he's just hiding now and he'll come back. And I was like, I used to tell myself that, like, as a teenager, and I thought it was the weirdest.

Like, I can't tell anyone this because, like, they're gonna think I'm crazy. But that was part of our grief. Kind of trying to fill in things to help us navigate the world and. And the grief and.

And, you know, and stay safe and those kind of things. Things. And when she said, I was like, well, I guess I'm not crazy, you know, and it's like it was.

Had she not shared that story, maybe I still think I was crazy about that and wouldn't be telling anyone about it. But it's just. I don't know. Showing up authentically and.

And sharing how I'm feeling has been the most liberating thing over the last couple years that I've been doing it. If I'm having a bad day, I'm going to tell people that I'm having a bad day. If my heart's broken because of losing my dog.

I wrote on social media the other day, I wrote something that was letter to my broken heart. And I shared that I grew up thinking boys aren't allowed to cry. Boys aren't allowed to have feelings, you know, like, and all these things.

And now finally, in my 40s, I'm like, Look, I'm not perfect. I'm broken. This is why I'm broken. See it because you might be feeling it, too. And if you feel it, that's okay, too, you know? And, like, that's all.

So I think there's just so much. I'm just going to keep talking about this, but there's so much value in being broken real.

And not showing up to be, I don't know, this performative version of ourselves, which so many of us assumed growing up that that's what we were supposed to do.

Lydia Knight: 00:50:03

Yeah. And we're taught that that's what we're supposed to do. Like, all of society teaches us, like, this is how you perform. This is how this is.

You know, don't be a nuisance, don't be a bother. Don't burden other people. Where when we're all Real and moving through it and being authentic with each other. It's like, oh, oh, I'm not alone.

Oh, that's a shame that has been lifted from inside of me because you shared that. That's your experience. And, oh, we're normalizing it. It's so powerful, right?

Matt Gilhooly: 00:50:35

Because, you know, like, we're just gonna make bad decisions every once in a while, and that's okay, you know, but you have. You know, you have a new way of existing in the world in which you can change your. Your thinking or your patterns or those things.

That being said, I think a lot of people might assume that you're perfect and nothing ever goes wrong and you never make a wrong decision. Is that true? Or do you. Do you feel super in control or do you sometimes make really, quote, unquote dumb decisions?

Lydia Knight: 00:51:03

I mean, all the time. All the time.

And I think what's different is, you know, before, when I would make a mistake or when I would make a decision that I'm like, ugh, like, you know, why did I do that? There was a shame around it. There was a. I need to never do that again. I need to hide that versus there's. There can be such a.

Such a playfulness around it when we. When we practice that. It is a practice to be authentic.

It is a practice to, you know, make mistakes or have things go wrong and to be able to forgive ourselves very quickly and be like, oh, of course I did that silly thing, because that's what. That's what people do. That's a lovable thing about me versus something that I need to hide. So, yeah, all the time.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:51:48

It's so fascinating. Your story is so fascinating because you were on the outside, so perfect, right?

Like, your business was going well, you know, like you were doing all the right things, and inside you were battling something that was so shameful for yourself.

No one knew, but you were probably attacking yourself with so much shame there, so much so, that this closet moment really, like, snapped its fingers on you to kind of start thinking differently. It's just so interesting how we can hold both and how we can somehow. Like, what was that period of time in which you were holding both so heavily?

Lydia Knight: 00:52:27

I mean, I'll give you an example that comes to mind. I remember having a call with a client when I was a health coach, and.

And I was talking to her and giving her all these great health tips and being so motivational. And then I asked her a question, and she responded back to me.

And as she was responding, I muted my phone and I Was just sobbing and sobbing and sobbing because I felt like such a hypocrite. And I felt just so much shame and so awful. And then it was time for me to talk. And muted like, okay, well, thanks so much.

And all it was like, so there was just this back and forth that was like. It just grates on your soul to try to be both.

And what's interesting is that all of the, you know, the mistakes or the shame that we feel or the ways we beat ourselves up when we're just real about it, it's interesting to see how quickly those things move through us, because when we suppress them, they just stack up and it gets worse and worse. But letting those things through is in. This is my authentic self, even this year, Matt. Like, my word for this year is radiate.

And what that means for me is instead of, oh, thank you. That's so sweet.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:53:40

That was the word I couldn't find earlier.

Lydia Knight: 00:53:42

Oh, well, I love that. So what. What that really means for me is that instead of. And this.

This question served me well for a long time, but instead of asking, who do I need to be? Who do I need to be to build this business? Who do I need to be to, you know, serve my clients? Who do I need to be?

That was a wonderful growth period, But I've switched from that question to the statement of, this is who I am.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:54:06

Yeah. And I can feel it.

Lydia Knight: 00:54:11

Thank you. And it's a practice, and it feels wonderful.

But it's where we all code switch in some sort of way where it's like, you act different around your grandpa than you do around your daughter.

But when the code switching minimizes and where everyone knows the same person, and when I show up, you know, in different areas of life and people get to know us in the same way, it's so nice to not have to keep track of our performances and to just be us.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:54:41

Yeah. Yeah, it's. And it's a lot easier. Like, I just feel like you can do a lot more when you don't have to hold the burden of.

Of performing to whatever standards you've set for this version and this version and that version. But as you said that that statement stuck with me of, like, who do I need to be?

Thinking of someone that's escaped a version of you that you weren't allowed. Like, someone else formed essentially. So you had to use it.

It's almost like you had to use that statement of who do I need to be to do the things I want to do because. Because you didn't know any other because you had left that part behind. Am I?

Lydia Knight: 00:55:20

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:55:21

I mean, it feels like you had to create something, so you needed that question.

Lydia Knight: 00:55:25

Yeah. I mean, that was survival for a while, and then it got, you know, incredible outcomes for a long while. But it's.

It's beautiful to be at the place without a judgment of either place being better. But it feels good this year to be in a spot where it's like, oh, this is who I am.

I'm just gonna show up all year and just be who I am and just trust that good things will happen versus forcing or pushing things or, you know, questioning things so much.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:55:50

It probably leads you to beautiful things. It probably leads you to more beautiful things, more beautiful connections, more success, however we define that, because you're showing up as you.

You're not, you know, pretending to be this boss lady when you can just show up as you and be just as successful.

Lydia Knight: 00:56:07

Yeah. And that's a trust that we build as well, and sort of a silly example of that. But, you know, one reason.

Reason that that honesty has always been an important value is just the work that it takes to not be. To keep track of all the lies. Like, I think of my grandmother as a cult leader, and she just. She keeps her story straight.

Like, she has all this detail and all these stories that aren't true, but she just takes the energy to keep track of everything. I'm like, that's.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:56:36

Well, she probably thinks they are, you know, at this point. Yeah.

Lydia Knight: 00:56:40

But it's still a lot to keep track of.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:56:42

Yeah, that's fascinating, too. I mean, that's a whole other story. And naturally, like, part of me just wants to hear all about that.

That cult upbringing, because I think there's such a fascination to something that I can't. But when you were telling part of your transitionary story and, like, how you escaped, like, an abusive relationship and those kind of things.

I think there are a lot of people that are in abusive relationships that don't realize how much of a cult that is like. And how much of a cult, like, experience those situations that we find ourselves in somehow are like, the experiences you had growing up.

It's just, you know, we don't call it that. So I bet there are people that would hear those stories and be like, I feel like I'm in that now.

Lydia Knight: 00:57:25

Totally. I mean, there's a. There's a lot of overlap.

And, I mean, I'm fully aware at this point that the reason that I chose to marry the person that I did was the abusive Relationship. Being with an abusive person felt like how I learned what love was.

Love was someone with absolute certainty that knows better how you feel than you know that is going to tell you everything to do and control you. And I just thought like, oh, that's love. Which it's not. But you know, I see that now.

But there is a familiarity of, yeah, an abusive relationship feels like being in a occult. I was in both and it felt similar again.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:58:05

It's like you don't need to be in that same exact experience to be able to relate to other people's stories. I don't know how I'm going to do this.

I like to wrap up these conversations with a question and I'm thinking of all the different Lydias that you've brought us through.

Like, I know there's this golden through line and this beautiful thread that you've brought along with you, but there are really distinct versions of you.

If this, this fully showing up who you are, radiating who you are in this version of your life, if you could go back to that Lydia, right before that zoom call or whatever call you were on where you were about to kind of share your truth with them, is there anything that you would want to tell that version of you?

Lydia Knight: 00:58:48

I would say, Lydia, understand that this is going to be a model of courage that will serve you over and over again in your life and that you not being perfect and showing people that you're not perfect is not something that's making you weaker. It's something that is actually going to be one of the most nourishing and healing pieces of your life for years to come.

Matt Gilhooly: 00:59:20

If only we would have heard that right? If only, you know, like, I mean, maybe we wouldn't have done these things.

Maybe if, if our current versions could go back to those younger versions and say something, maybe we wouldn't even say anything.

Like, I think of like my 8 year old self sitting there and I'm like, what could I say besides like, you're going to be okay, it's all going to work out, but it's gonna be a long road. But I, I, I just love that and thank you for letting me take us to that moment instead of the closet. I think the closet moment is very important.

But this, the shedding that you did publicly feels so, like, that's what I resonate with. I just feel so compelling and so honest and I think affirming for me, like in a sense of, of like, keep sharing your story.

Like me, I'm telling myself right now, like, keep letting the dark parts out because it's going to help you like in the long run like you just told your younger self. So thank you for allowing this story to unfold in its own beautiful way.

Lydia Knight: 01:00:29

Of course. And Matt, I mean we knew that this story was going to unfold in just the way it was supposed to. So we just get to enjoy the rest.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:00:36

I agree.

If people want to learn about this amazing stuff that you're working on, your couple books that are coming, all the things that you're doing, how do we find a way into your circle?

Lydia Knight: 01:00:47

Yes. So I warmly invite all of you to join us.

A great place to land is theshicenter.org podcast and there you'll find links to the double memoir Split to our book upcoming when it's out thought leader about these principles of deprogramming.

We also have a three day in person immersive transformation experience where we deprogram a deep seated thing that's holding us back in this cool three day experience. We have beautiful programs ending eating disorders, a free community. All of that is linked for you@theshecenter.org podcast.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:01:27

Awesome. We will put that in the show notes so it's easy to find, easy to connect to.

If you are listening and something, something in Lydia's story resonated with you, please visit that link, please find her on the interwebs, find her secret TikTok and, and watch that and help her go more viral.

But I, I'm guessing that you would love to hear from people or their stories and those kind of things and if not, well, I put it out there so no, I, I love it.

Lydia Knight: 01:01:54

And absolutely it's been so fun to see people share. So you can find us at the she center on all the platforms, but especially on YouTube.

We now have a playlist with all of those cult stories that gets updated. It's the Honest Story Time playlist and so you can find it all there and love to hear your stories.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:02:13

Awesome. Well, thank you for being a part of the Life Shift podcast. Thank you for being a part of what I'm calling my healing journey.

I think that this has been so wonderful to be able to have these conversations with people that I might never have met. So thank you, thank you.

Lydia Knight: 01:02:32

Appreciate you so much. These stories are incredibly valuable and I love that you pour yourself into every one of them.

Matt Gilhooly: 01:02:39

I sure try. So thank you listeners. Thank you for being a part of this journey too. This is episode 170.

I don't have any plans on stopping, so thank you for allowing me to continue this.

If something that Lydia said today, maybe, maybe you know someone in your life that something Lydia said kind of would help them do us a favor, send them a link to this episode and let them hear the story in the way that it unfolded. And, and maybe it will help them. So thank you for listening and I will be back next week with a brand new episode of the Life Shift podcast.

Thanks again, Lydia. Foreign for more information, please visit www.thelifeshiftpodcast.com.